Z-Wave vs Insteon - Opinions?
- Thread starter KenM
- Start date
KenM
Active Member
I agree, I will not argue.
If you get a chance read the Insteon SDK agreement.
N.C. did this on his own. I agree with that 100%. I read his posts in the Insteon SDK forum.
Anyhow, about all I did today was to unpack my stuff and try to make sense about the instructions.
Under Programming, the instructions for the HA02 appliance module, it said, see the instructions for the HA07 remote control. I just happened to get lucky in that I purchaced the HA07. My head is starting to hurt. I'll update this tomorrow.
Ken
If you get a chance read the Insteon SDK agreement.
N.C. did this on his own. I agree with that 100%. I read his posts in the Insteon SDK forum.
Anyhow, about all I did today was to unpack my stuff and try to make sense about the instructions.
Under Programming, the instructions for the HA02 appliance module, it said, see the instructions for the HA07 remote control. I just happened to get lucky in that I purchaced the HA07. My head is starting to hurt. I'll update this tomorrow.
Ken
Seems all these products use the same tech writer. The first UPB switches I got referred me to a web page that did not exist. My early Insteon gear required that I read a manual that only came with a starter kit that I did not have. A friend working on some Zigbee products commented that one item that was needed to configure it is only available currently under NDA.KenM said:
They do not call this the bleeding edge for nothing.
/carmi
ChrisWalker
Active Member
Z-Wave dimmable modules can have a fixed ramp rate, or a configurable one. Additionally, a controller can specify the ramp rate when it dims/brightens the lights on many of the configurable ones.johnnynine said:
This is generally a feature in the nicer switches, although it will likely eventually make it into all of them.
Chris
KenM
Active Member
Hi,
I installed two Z-Wave, HomePro ZDW100W wall dimmer switches today.
I also put one Intermatic HA02C appliance switch in service on my 40 watt fluorescent aquarium light. This is the same light that killed 3 Insteon appliance modules prior to my 'operating' on one to keep it going. I like to call that one my frank-Insteon module.
I only have a 6 channel HA09 controller remote for now. A HA07 is on the way. I have no PC interface so this observation will be rather limited.
I'll start out by saying my Insteon experience is rather extensive. I have written software to poke link records a byte at a time. My Z-Wave experience is what I have read in the past two days and about one hour hands on work with my current hardware. If I make any obvious error in my observations I am sure some kind sole with Z-Wave experience will correct me.
My house was built in 1958. Whatever electrical boxes are in place are the original ones. I did drop neutral wires down to most boxes (some I just couldn't get to). The wiring is 2 pin.
The ZDW100W wall dimmer is wider and deeper than the Insteon devices. Like Insteon it requires a neutral connection. It has more metal on the front, that I guess, is to dissipate heat. It was a tight fit in my wall box. It is rated at 300W. The original faceplates that I had on my Insteon dimmers fit perfectly. I'm glad that at least face plate size is standard.
The network enrollment and channel (button) assignment is very similar to linking a Insteon device. It is a little easier in that the controller is battery operated, no running to a remote device to press a button. You take the remote to the device.
For the control people amoung us, Z-Wave may not be for you. With Insteon, just about every device can be linked to something else. You can set up a hall switch to turn on any thing else in the house, easily. With Z-Wave the devices are enrolled into the network on a master controler and then functions are assigned with the master (or secondary) controler(s). This works well for me. The only links I had were from a controlLink module.
The following is from the 'this is only my opinion' department;
I like the ZDW100Ws. They have a soft green LED on the front that is off when the light is off. The first Insteon module that I replaced was a keyPadLinc in my bedroom. Even at the dim setting the KPL is way too bright for a room where people sleep. I had colored the KPLs LEDs with a red sharpie marker, still too bright, color change kit, no help.
The HA09 remote just feels good in your hand. It is about the size of a TV remote but a little heavier, again 100% my opinion.
The HA02 appliance module is rated at 15A resistive but only at 42 watts for a Compact Fluorescent load. How honest of them. Check out the Insteon applianceLinc specs. I would rate Insteon at about 15 watts flourescent.
Happy HA all!
Ken
(edit corrected spelling)
I installed two Z-Wave, HomePro ZDW100W wall dimmer switches today.
I also put one Intermatic HA02C appliance switch in service on my 40 watt fluorescent aquarium light. This is the same light that killed 3 Insteon appliance modules prior to my 'operating' on one to keep it going. I like to call that one my frank-Insteon module.
I only have a 6 channel HA09 controller remote for now. A HA07 is on the way. I have no PC interface so this observation will be rather limited.
I'll start out by saying my Insteon experience is rather extensive. I have written software to poke link records a byte at a time. My Z-Wave experience is what I have read in the past two days and about one hour hands on work with my current hardware. If I make any obvious error in my observations I am sure some kind sole with Z-Wave experience will correct me.
My house was built in 1958. Whatever electrical boxes are in place are the original ones. I did drop neutral wires down to most boxes (some I just couldn't get to). The wiring is 2 pin.
The ZDW100W wall dimmer is wider and deeper than the Insteon devices. Like Insteon it requires a neutral connection. It has more metal on the front, that I guess, is to dissipate heat. It was a tight fit in my wall box. It is rated at 300W. The original faceplates that I had on my Insteon dimmers fit perfectly. I'm glad that at least face plate size is standard.
The network enrollment and channel (button) assignment is very similar to linking a Insteon device. It is a little easier in that the controller is battery operated, no running to a remote device to press a button. You take the remote to the device.
For the control people amoung us, Z-Wave may not be for you. With Insteon, just about every device can be linked to something else. You can set up a hall switch to turn on any thing else in the house, easily. With Z-Wave the devices are enrolled into the network on a master controler and then functions are assigned with the master (or secondary) controler(s). This works well for me. The only links I had were from a controlLink module.
The following is from the 'this is only my opinion' department;
I like the ZDW100Ws. They have a soft green LED on the front that is off when the light is off. The first Insteon module that I replaced was a keyPadLinc in my bedroom. Even at the dim setting the KPL is way too bright for a room where people sleep. I had colored the KPLs LEDs with a red sharpie marker, still too bright, color change kit, no help.
The HA09 remote just feels good in your hand. It is about the size of a TV remote but a little heavier, again 100% my opinion.
The HA02 appliance module is rated at 15A resistive but only at 42 watts for a Compact Fluorescent load. How honest of them. Check out the Insteon applianceLinc specs. I would rate Insteon at about 15 watts flourescent.
Happy HA all!
Ken
(edit corrected spelling)
KenM
Active Member
Just to clarify something I wrote earlier.
A master controller is not 100% necessary for a Z-Wave network to function. It is necessary to add and delete devices from the network.
There are wall switches available that act a controllers, basically duplicating the Insteon ability to have a wall light switch control other houshold devices.
I'll post updates as any events / new hardware arrivals happen. So far my Z-Wave appliance module has controlled my fluorescent aquarium lights longer and through more on/off cycles than any non modified Insteon applianceLink has. The HA02C device is rated at 43 watts for fluorescents and my lights are 40 watts so that should be a good test.
The ZDW100W wall dimmers seem to memorize the last 'on level' and then come on up to that level the next time you press the switch paddle (from a full off). To get to full bright again you need to hold in the paddle a few seconds. I don't know if that is a feature or an annoyance. I guess you could look at it either way. They also have a default ramp rate of about one second.
Ken
A master controller is not 100% necessary for a Z-Wave network to function. It is necessary to add and delete devices from the network.
There are wall switches available that act a controllers, basically duplicating the Insteon ability to have a wall light switch control other houshold devices.
I'll post updates as any events / new hardware arrivals happen. So far my Z-Wave appliance module has controlled my fluorescent aquarium lights longer and through more on/off cycles than any non modified Insteon applianceLink has. The HA02C device is rated at 43 watts for fluorescents and my lights are 40 watts so that should be a good test.
The ZDW100W wall dimmers seem to memorize the last 'on level' and then come on up to that level the next time you press the switch paddle (from a full off). To get to full bright again you need to hold in the paddle a few seconds. I don't know if that is a feature or an annoyance. I guess you could look at it either way. They also have a default ramp rate of about one second.
Ken
The Insteon KPL does have 2 brightness levels (yes, their are BOTH too bright).
We have had some recent electrical storms. When the power goes out (and then is restored), I find that I have to go around the house and change the KPL brightness back to the lower level (it resets to the high brightness).
We have had some recent electrical storms. When the power goes out (and then is restored), I find that I have to go around the house and change the KPL brightness back to the lower level (it resets to the high brightness).
upstatemike
Senior Member
I disagree. In all my applications neither level is bright enough. I would like to see much brighter LEDs in the keypads so thay can't be washed out by sunlight coming through a window, etc.Smarty said:
Guy Lavoie
Active Member
So now if Smarty sends his KPLs to upstatemike, and upstatemike sends his KPLs to Smarty...and jhimmel just hangs on to his: everyone will be happy! 
KenM
Active Member
Hi,
Today, I received another six channel Intermatic HA09 portable remote controller and another Intermatic HA02 Appliance module.
I put the appliance modules on my two aquarium flourescent light hoods. My Z-Wave network now consists of two HomePro ZDW100W wall dimmers, two HA02 appliance modules, and two HA09 remote controllers.
This Z-Wave stuff is neat. The hand held remotes work from anywhere in my house. They each have six on / off buttons that can each be set up to activate 'scenes' on up to 16 modules. The scenes are similar to Insteon scenes in that you are able to set in any on level, press a button, and it happens. The neat part is that the controllers are small battery operated devices. Home control, wow, what a novel idea.
I have a slightly larger HA07C 12 channel portable remote that should be here in a day or two. The HA07C allows a person to program timer events into the Z-Wave network.
So far, I'm impressed. I think that Insteon may have made an error in not comming out very early with a handheld remote / timer event programming device.
Not fixing the V2 ApplianceLinks so that a 40 watt flourescent, or 600 watt heater, or 50 watt fan (my documented failures) would not kill them was another error. I supported them 100% for five months and then tried something different. My patience wore out.
My experience with the Insteon PLC communications is that they are about 99% reliable. If you add some smart software then you have a 100% reliable system. That is a very important plus. Some of what bothers me is that Insteon advertises that it is a 'dual something' network. It is not. It is a powerline network that currently uses RF to bridge phases. If your powerline gets too noisy, then your 100% reliable smart software may spend a lot of time attempting the 100% reliable PLC communications.
This is again from the my opinion department;
The ultra-bright white LEDs on the Insteon plug in modules have bothered me since day one, back in Nov 05. I had about ten of these modules plugged in around the house. When it is dark, I get the impression that a lightening storm is in the area from the bright white flashes that happen every time a powerline command goes by. The Z-Wave modules that I have tested so far have soft green LEDs that serve as indicators, not flashing annoyances.
I like the idea that different manufacturers make the Z-Wave devices. It makes me feel that the competition will keep the manufacturers more honest. I also suspect that customer complaints are dealt with more quickly in a competitive environment.
Ken
Today, I received another six channel Intermatic HA09 portable remote controller and another Intermatic HA02 Appliance module.
I put the appliance modules on my two aquarium flourescent light hoods. My Z-Wave network now consists of two HomePro ZDW100W wall dimmers, two HA02 appliance modules, and two HA09 remote controllers.
This Z-Wave stuff is neat. The hand held remotes work from anywhere in my house. They each have six on / off buttons that can each be set up to activate 'scenes' on up to 16 modules. The scenes are similar to Insteon scenes in that you are able to set in any on level, press a button, and it happens. The neat part is that the controllers are small battery operated devices. Home control, wow, what a novel idea.
I have a slightly larger HA07C 12 channel portable remote that should be here in a day or two. The HA07C allows a person to program timer events into the Z-Wave network.
So far, I'm impressed. I think that Insteon may have made an error in not comming out very early with a handheld remote / timer event programming device.
Not fixing the V2 ApplianceLinks so that a 40 watt flourescent, or 600 watt heater, or 50 watt fan (my documented failures) would not kill them was another error. I supported them 100% for five months and then tried something different. My patience wore out.
My experience with the Insteon PLC communications is that they are about 99% reliable. If you add some smart software then you have a 100% reliable system. That is a very important plus. Some of what bothers me is that Insteon advertises that it is a 'dual something' network. It is not. It is a powerline network that currently uses RF to bridge phases. If your powerline gets too noisy, then your 100% reliable smart software may spend a lot of time attempting the 100% reliable PLC communications.
This is again from the my opinion department;
The ultra-bright white LEDs on the Insteon plug in modules have bothered me since day one, back in Nov 05. I had about ten of these modules plugged in around the house. When it is dark, I get the impression that a lightening storm is in the area from the bright white flashes that happen every time a powerline command goes by. The Z-Wave modules that I have tested so far have soft green LEDs that serve as indicators, not flashing annoyances.
I like the idea that different manufacturers make the Z-Wave devices. It makes me feel that the competition will keep the manufacturers more honest. I also suspect that customer complaints are dealt with more quickly in a competitive environment.
Ken
Not to be a kill joy, but a simple mechanical timer plug from Intermatic seems like a better fit for this application. I mean, are you randomly turning the fish tank light on or off? You aren't dimming it, what kind of automation are you doing with it then? Multiple on-off cycles per day maybe ... just to mess with the fish B)
Jay
KenM
Active Member
Hi Jay C,
Good point.
I am only using the automation stuff to simulate some type of real world condition. I like to have the lights switch on and off in relation to the local sunrise and sunset.
Being a decorative thingy, the fish sometime suffer in that the aquarium lights make for some good mood lighting, late at night.
Generally, the fish only show their dissaproval of that by swimming upside down.
k
Good point.
I am only using the automation stuff to simulate some type of real world condition. I like to have the lights switch on and off in relation to the local sunrise and sunset.
Being a decorative thingy, the fish sometime suffer in that the aquarium lights make for some good mood lighting, late at night.
Generally, the fish only show their dissaproval of that by swimming upside down.
k
