KenM
Active Member
Insteon.net 'INSTEON compared' page six, 'Insteon details' page 41, and probably other places.
Unless of course, they choose to admit that INSTEON was never dual mesh to start with.
Ken
New Insteon Access Point
- Thread starter Smarty
- Start date
Insteon.net 'INSTEON compared' page six, 'Insteon details' page 41, and probably other places.
Unless of course, they choose to admit that INSTEON was never dual mesh to start with.
Ken
Those don't specifically mention the SignalLincs. Considering that there were no Insteon RF remotes until now, I never assumed that the SignalLincs would be the RF receivers (maybe that's the skeptic in me). I was under the impression that they were only for repeating powerline Insteon signals to another branch of the powerline.
Interesting. Some of us may have been operating under a different misconception. Given that the Signalincs *are* RF receivers, why wasn't it logical for us to believe they were the future basis of wireless insteon device communication?
Here is the description on Smarthome's site: "SignaLinc RF creates your dual-band INSTEON network by simultaneously transmitting and receiving INSTEON messages across both radio frequency and your home's existing wiring. When used as a pair, the SignaLinc RFs also couple the two different electrical phases of your home. "
Now, I don't know about you, but when I read "creates your dual-band INSTEON network", that actually suggests something to me...
And when I read "simultaneously transmitting and receiving INSTEON messages across both radio frequency and your home's existing wiring" that suggested to me that these devices actually would receive a wireless signal and repeat it over the wireline (and vice versa). That's why I bought 4!
In fact, though you say you thought they were ONLY for phase coupling, Smarthome actually describes that as an ADDITIONAL function ("also couple").
The most likely situation is that as development progressed, SmartLabs discovered that they could not transmit/receive the RF properly, so they were forced to develop a different product. But they don't want to voluntarily swap out all of the Signalincs for free. (Quite some time ago, a "secret developers only" roadmap of devices was briefly broadcasted about...does anyone know whether these access points were on that list?
Smarthome's Solution: Offer a $15 (engineering sample) remotelinc as a $50 item; then Then give it to you "free" when you buy the "refurb" access points.
So, to recap, originally I spent $100 approx. on 4 signalincs...now, I have to pay $60 for the initial pair of "refurb" access points...but I can then send in all 4 signalincs...and in the end, I will have 4 access points and 1 remotelinc...total cost: $160 plus a good bit of additional shipping.
The way I see it, in the end, they are making me pay $60 for the remotelinc (whether I want it or not)...so I don't see this as a feather in their cap.
Worse, in what has now become standard SmartLabs OP, they aren't releasing any other device that uses the access points...and won't say when/if they will.
IF I actually take them up on this offer, I figure there is a 50/50 chance I will end up having to swap out the access points due to firmware issues once they start producing RF products...
"IF I actually take them up on this offer, I figure there is a 50/50 chance I will end up having to swap out the access points due to firmware issues once they start producing RF products... "
That is a possibility............ but unlikely they will make the same mistake twice.
They screwed up........... it happens.............. at least it was a lower volume item this time.
I see where you're coming from. From my side, when I look at a product like this I look at what is out there, actual products, now. It was a new technology, with no RF remotes on the market. SignalLincs were obviously being sold primarily for a different reason - to bridge phases. There was no other reason for it to be sold, or for anyone to buy - there were no other RF devices on the market.
Now that there IS a RF remote out, I do expect the new AccessPoint to work with all future RF remotes.
It's a crappy situation, but I'm just glad that they went with a new AccessPoint if that's what needed to be done, rather than half-assing it with a SignalLinc if it wasn't up to par. I think the deal they're offering is decent to me anyway, because I want to buy a RemoteLinc anyway.
But you're right - if they were THAT misleading, and people really bought SignalLincs for that reason, I'd say they should swap them out.
One of the listed features in the manual for Signallincs was to "Eliminate RF Dead Spots". If they were just for bridging phases, why would RF dead spots matter?
Note: I fully expect SmartlabsMike to appear shortly and stress that Insteon is a Dual Protocol Mesh Network and not address anyone's concerns whatsoever.
WayneW
Senior Member
IMHO, they WERE that misleading. And I have no interest in the RemoteLinc, "free" or not. But I have to wonder if there are any RF devices coming soon that I DO want and will they still have the swap program in place at that time, or do I have to jump now.
You also gotta wonder if there are 3rd party remotes on the way, if they will use their own access points. I use X10 keychain remotes, but a 3rd party transceiver so I can turn on/off my driveway lights from 300 feet away.
If I were a 3rd party designing a keychain remote, I might bundle my own extended range access point (depending on the range of the SmartHome units I guess).
I think that they were misleading since I clearly remember that the signalincs were intended as RF receivers for up and coming rf devices. They apparently had a technical roadblock to overcome and had to design a new unit.
I think that there marketing people are using this situation to get the RF Remotes out there hoping that they will take off. For me to pay $59 (plus lots of shipping) to trade in 4 signalincs for 4 access points is inconveinent at the moment since I have already spent my budget and then some for HA for the rest of the year. But what choices are left? Spend more later when the price doubles in 12 months like with their other products?
I am in over my head with Insteon as far as cost. I was going to buy some each year and used the original prices plus 15% as my guideline for the overall budget (figured about $800 and have spent over $2000 and I got some good deals here and there). THANK GOD someone from CT bailed me out. Not sure if that person wants me to use their name so I wont. I have enough devices to automate 95% of my house. I just need some of those Keypad Relaylincs and I will be done. RF devices if they ever truly come to fruition will be a nicety I may add if money permits. I do not consider the new RF remote as usefull device. It looks like a VCR remote from th 70's (big, awkward, and ugly) however in all fairness it may be the pictures. Limiting it to 6 device control is as bad as a controlinc being limited to 5 or 6 devices. Its useless for controlling more than one room. I cant even control my sprinklers with it.
WayneW
Senior Member
No, the AccessPoints were NOT on that list from March 2006. When Joe Dada (pres of SH) discussed the RemoteLinc with me at EHX in Spring of 2006, he never hinted that the SignaLincs would not work with it.
I'm sure they absolutely intended them to work with future remotes. I wonder what the road block was?
I've got my AccessPoints on order. No big deal to me, I want a RemoteLinc anyway. Ideally I'd like a different remote, but this will allow me to test the RF range and give me some remote control for now. Hopefully they'll have a bigger variety soon, and I'll find a more obscure use for this one.
I'm surprised no one has released an IR bridge yet - that's also high on my wish-list.
At least you don't have to disconnect and reconnect switches. These you only have to unplug from the wall!
Absolutely. After installing 60+ in my house, I hope I never have to replace a switch again.
Yeah right, fat chance!
Given that that's the exact opposite of your original statement...I have no choice but to assume you have some hidden pro-Smarthome agenda.
I don't say that to offend you, but out of sheer confusion.
Originally, you said you believed that the signalincs were clearly NOT related to Insteon RF...you went so far as to ask for proof of why others thought they were.
As one of many who have spent hundreds (thousands?) on Insteon beginning in 2005...and who have already had to swap out different hardwares...and who still have homes with multiple dissimilar firmware devices (can you imagine different Controlinc firmware versions that work DIFFERENTLY? Just come to my house!)...and who still have a special closet shelf cluttered with MULTIPLE dead switches/plugins....this little "upgrade opportunity" is quite possibly the proverbial backbreaker.
Heck, I am on my second PLC and stuck with the fact that I now need to buy a PLM!?!?!!? I have 2 new switches still in their boxes that I haven't been able to get excited enough about to install for a couple of months now...
I for one think it's time to consider other options.
Exactly my point. These are not *new* devices...they are replacements for non-functional devices. BUT Smarthome does want to be on the hook for replacing them.
Especially since most of us were forced to buy 4 or more to get good communication in the first place.
The remotelinc is a joke, and if they ever come out with an RF product worth having, I guess it would actually be cheaper to just buy an access point then...after all, surely we won't actually NEED more than 1, will we?
Apparently the RF range is better than the signalincs, so probably just plug it into the passthrough of a centrally located signalinc and you can cover the whole "meshed" house...
(Okay, admit it, you laughed at that, didn't you?)
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