If SH wasnt so secretive there would probably be less negative. I can live with a few extra bucks to trade something in for a better version but then the products do not work as described and all of the QC problems and price increases etc its frustrating.
New Insteon Access Point
- Thread starter Smarty
- Start date
If SH wasnt so secretive there would probably be less negative. I can live with a few extra bucks to trade something in for a better version but then the products do not work as described and all of the QC problems and price increases etc its frustrating.
How many of my year-old devices use these features now? How many of my existing devices will have to be replaced to use these features?
rocco
Active Member
Thanks for that, Dave.
But just a small point: Extended commands are not new, as they were in the original Insteon specification. So it appears SmartLabs knew all along that the SignalLinc was an interim product.
KenM
Active Member
That is exactly where I am coming from. Either by a over sight or design error, SmartLabs produced products with a INSTEON logo that never met the original design specs. Now consumers must pay to fix that mistake. It also makes creating useful software a bit of a nightmare. You can bet if my Z-Wave devices did not meet the Z-Wave specs they would go back as defective merchandise. Oh well, I guess you are either happy or not with the current state of SmartLabs business practices.
By the way, the extended data makes possible things like encrypted data packets and just about any other thing you can imagine a use for. It is what, back in Nov 2005, made me say "cool" and jump on the INSTEON wagon. Imagine my dismay when I heard the "oops" about extended messaging. It is sort of like buying a 300 horsepower car only to later find out it is really a 90 horsepower.
I agree that griping will provide no solution. I also believe that one cannot make an informed decision with only half of the information.
Ken
upstatemike
Senior Member
But that is exactly the problem that Z-Wave has always had, products that don't adhere to a common spec. Z-Wave company A adds a proprietary feature that is not supported by Z-Wave company B's super remote that you like etc. And it sounds like Vizia doesn't play well with anybody. I'm not saying the SmartHome situation is OK. I just don't think Z-Wave represents a better situation for compliance with (or even having) a uniform specification across all products.
The situation with Insteon is similar to X-10 and extended codes. All devices follow the basic protocol and some have enabled additional functionality already defined in the protocol. So it is a matter of a product having the additional feature or not which I think is better than a company adding something that is completely proprietary to their brand and product line.
KenM
Active Member
When I read the original INSTEON white paper there was no mention of 'extended capability'. The document defined a communication spec and basically stated all INSTEON devices must meet the spec to be granted an INSTEON logo. That is the only point I am trying to make here. This is not an 'enhancement', it is a 'fix'.
The Z-Wave protocol defines a basic communication spec and allows manufacturers to add to it. Z-Wave devices can not be sold unless they go through compliance testing that insures compliance with the basic spec. I have got Intermatic remotes that control the basic Z-Wave function on my Vizia-RF switches just fine. My Vizia-RF Scene controller will control my Intermatic devices basic Z-Wave functions. To use the added Leviton's Vizia-RF abilities, I need something that knows how to access those abilities. In my case, I use a Z-Troller and HomeSeer 2 and have had no problem.
Ken
Edit added:
I was a little surprised to find the original link to the INSTEON white paper still in place. You can find the original reference to it as AccessHA.com at: AccessHA.com link with reference to INSTEON white paper.
This was what I read prior to buying into INSTEON.
k
upstatemike
Senior Member
OK I see what you are saying. It definitely would have been better for this to have been enabled from day one and it still isn't clear why it was not. The problem with Insteon has always been more with marketing decisions than with the protocol itself.
Why did they decide to release the first products without extended Insteon commands enabled?
Why are LEDs on keypadlincs set so if you change the factory brightness setting you can never get it back even with a hard reset?
Why did they never ship the wall bracket for the ControLinc?
Why do screw-in modules defualt to full on after a power flicker regardless of previous state?
Why can't you set the local ramp rate or X-10 address of an Insteon device remotely via software without having to physically touch the device?
None of these things are due to any problem with the Insteon protocol but can only be attributed to a desire by marketing to tick off as many people as possible.
Just because the Insteon protocol HAS all these features doesn't mean every device has to use them. What exactly about the existing switches isn't working as advertised, or will fail to work down the road? As for useful software, there is plenty of great software that supports Insteon. As a matter of fact, I see more software supporting Insteon than other lighting controls. I'm not saying it's an easy task to support Insteon, but I hear plenty of issues writing drivers for Zwave as well.
Not at all. It's like buying one model Honda with a 4-cylinder engine, and complaining because you found out that Honda came out with a 6 cylinder version the following year, and feeling like you've been screwed.
Is this correct? On my KeypadLincs I can choose between two different brightness levels, and go back and forth at will. Is there some other adjustment I'm not aware of?
I believe this can be done through PowerHome, but I could be wrong.
I'll add these questions:
- Why do a fairly high percentage of switches come in with problems? Usually I can just FEEL that a switch is going to give me problems when I take it out of the box. Press the ON/OFF a few times, and some switches just don't feel as solid or have a good click like others do. These are things that should be found at the factory .
- Why did they have so many issues with varying LED intensities and color tints? All of my later switches have been OK, but for a while some switches would have a slight bluish or greenish tint and look silly next to others. Also, I hope they stabilize on the LED brightness - I think the current level is perfect. With something like light switches, consistency should be a high priority for SmartHome.
KenM
Active Member
KenM
Active Member
Mike, do yourself a favor and read the original INSTEON white paper. NEVER was there any mention mention of FUTURE upgrades. I either have a communication protocol or I don't. If my device does not adhere to the published protocol, then I am violating that protocol. (<- that is a period)
I am not trying to bash INSTEON (although some of these replies would make that very easy), all I am saying, again, is that the SignaLincs do not meet the defined INSTEON protocol. I (and many others) got screwed.
If you are happy with INSTEON I am happy for you. It is a very reliable protocol. Do not trust that company too far though.
Ken
upstatemike
Senior Member
The two choices are dim and dimmer. From the factory the LEDs come at a very bright setting that is easy to see in full daylight. If you decide to compare this to the other two settings you cannot go back. Sometimes SmartHome will do a warranty swap out for you but there is no way to get the setting back in the field.
You can program it with PowerHome but the settings will not take effect until you go to the device and push the reset button.
Sorry, I still don't understand. There must be some setting I'm not aware of.
If I take my KeypadLinc I can toggle between 2 different brightness levels by simultaneously hitting the C and F buttons (in 8 button mode). Is there a 3rd brightness level I'm not aware of? If so, how do you set it? Is it brighter or dimmer than the other 2 modes?
Or, are you saying that once you press the C and F it toggles between 2 modes that are not as bright as the original? If that's the case, I haven't noticed that in my switches.
my feelings were not hurt - i used the word annoying - in the 'teacher, teacher - you forgot to assign us homework' sense
upstatemike
Senior Member
Yes that is what I am saying. Out of the box the keypadlinc is MUCH brighter than the 2 options available once you press C and F. If you want the bright level then the act of pressing C and F essentially breaks it for you and it cannot be fixed. You have to replace the keypadlinc to get the high brightness back. I don't know if this problem is being addressed in future firmware releases.
That's weird... I just took a new one out of the box, hooked it up, toggled it to dim, then toggled it back and it seemed to return to the original level - at least to my eyes.
Do you have a link to any past discussions on this? I'm curious now, I have never heard of this before....
