I am in the process of setting up some automation routines and have noticed that the HAI PIM is causing certain LED lights that are dimmed to flash every time any UPB signal is sent over the network from the OP2. Odd thing is, the SA PIM that I am using with upstart does not cause this issue. Is this a known issue with the HAI PIM?
OP2 & HAI PIM Causing Dimmed LED lights to Flash
- Thread starter DIYHO
- Start date
The UPB signal generated could really be considered powerline noise, and different PIMs do it slightly differently. Rather to blame the PIM for doing it's job, a more likely cause is the switches that are controlling the LED lights. Not all switches were designed to control LED lights, and LED lights also vary greatly from one to the next. I'd try a different type of LED bulb, or try HAI's new switches designed for LED bulbs. Somestimes, you can also just make sure you have one regular bulb on each circuit and that might be enough to dampen things out. When you ONLY have LED lights, the power draw isn't enough to operate the lights correctly.
Hey ano,
Odd thing is, the bulbs in question only flash when dimmed, when full on they don't. All my switches are Simply Automated.
I have noticed that all my LED lighting is sensitive to power levels (some more than others), causing flickering when dimmed. Change the level by a couple percents and it stabilizes (note for anyone else experiencing this). The particular bulbs (Ecosmart PAR's) are the ones that are the most sensitive to energy levels and also the ones that flash when the OP2 is accessing the UPB network.
Odd thing is, the bulbs in question only flash when dimmed, when full on they don't. All my switches are Simply Automated.
I have noticed that all my LED lighting is sensitive to power levels (some more than others), causing flickering when dimmed. Change the level by a couple percents and it stabilizes (note for anyone else experiencing this). The particular bulbs (Ecosmart PAR's) are the ones that are the most sensitive to energy levels and also the ones that flash when the OP2 is accessing the UPB network.
pete_c
Guru
I did some UPB switch upgrades over the last month or so. That said I had one outdoor incandescent bulb do a strobe like thing when dimmed to 20%. I have never seen this with my other UPB switches. I replaced the switch and all is fine now.
This though was related to an SA switch and an incandescent light outside.
This though was related to an SA switch and an incandescent light outside.
The particular light that this problem is most notable on is the Ecosmart PAR30 LED using a SA US2-40 that is hardwired with a remote switch. I just noticed that when the light is flashing, the LED on the remote switch also flashes, but the LED on the US2-40 that controls the load stays constant.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
I've noticed similar but it only happens in a small portion of the dimming range. I used the super cheapo $10 LED bulbs which have a very narrow dimming range meaning for small increments within that range, they're super sensitive.
I've had the bulbs in for 18 months now and only even noticed it once or twice unless I'm specifically looking for it, in which case I know how to reproduce it.
I've had the bulbs in for 18 months now and only even noticed it once or twice unless I'm specifically looking for it, in which case I know how to reproduce it.
You do have to do some experimentation. I have mainly SA switches and they can dim most LED bulbs, but the more you dim them, the more they are susceptible to variations in the powerline (i.e. UPB signals)
I don't want to start a big debate, but those SA remote switches are the worst device ever created. I just use a regular UPB switch as a remote. Its much more flexible. Create a link and it can control any light in your house.
I don't want to start a big debate, but those SA remote switches are the worst device ever created. I just use a regular UPB switch as a remote. Its much more flexible. Create a link and it can control any light in your house.
For this particular light, it doesn't matter what level it is dimmed at. At any dimmed state, stable (not flickering) or not, the UPB signals from the OP2 will flash the light. It appears to take it from the dimmed level to 100%, back and forth until the UPB activity from the OP2 ceases. I did check the wiring and replaced the remote switch with a spare I had, but the issue still remains. Would an inline filter help here?
I am in general agreement with you on the remote switches, however I had them and the appropriate wiring in place, so I used them. Eventually I will most likely end up replacing them, particularly on this problem light where a more flexible switch would have been a better call.
You can filter out the UPB signals, but it would be my last resort. I have a large LED message display in my kitchen, where UPB signals would show up as dots walking across the display. For that I used a plug-in UPB filter, and it did work. The problem with filtering power to a light switch, and meeting code, requires you to install another outlet box to put the filter in, and it has to have a cover that is accessible. You also have to add up all the max. wattage of the fixtures that switch controls, and your filter has to be rated for that wattage, even if your actual wattage is much less.
I think a better route to go would be to get a switch designed for LED lighting. For example, Lutron has the C.L. dimmer line if its not a UPB switch, if it is, HAI released a UPB LED light dimmer in August. These should not flicker with LED lights.
I think a better route to go would be to get a switch designed for LED lighting. For example, Lutron has the C.L. dimmer line if its not a UPB switch, if it is, HAI released a UPB LED light dimmer in August. These should not flicker with LED lights.
Perhaps this would solve it, however the primary problem isn't with flickering due to an incompatible dimming curve/level (which is what their new switch apparently addresses), but flashing due to upb signals from the OP2 PIM specifically, since the SAI PIM doesn't cause this flashing.
pete_c
Guru
My very first HAI PIM was disfunctional in that while sending it didn't receive well at all.
Frustrating me a bit as this was my first attempt to utilize UPB.
I had already been using the SA USB PIM just fine along with the SA serial PIM with no issues. Went as far as thinking that there was something wrong with my HAI OPII panel. Even doing a cold boot of the HAI UPB PIM didn't help my issues. I replaced the HAI UPB PIM and all was well and all was well after that. That said and some recent issues I noticed that the longest warranty was on my PCS UPB devices and the shortest was on my SA and HAI UPB devices.
IE:
HAI
Any implied warranties, including warranties of merchantability and fitness for particular use or purpose are limited to a period of two (2) years from purchase date. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may have other legal rights, which vary from state to state. Some limitations may not apply to you.
SA
WARRANTY PERIOD
The warranty period for all Simply Automated UPB (Universal Powerline Bus) products is two (2) years.
PCS
Most folks do purchase their UPB devices from certified dealers; but what happens if you are a new owner of a house with 3 year old PCS switches and end up with a defective switch?
Frustrating me a bit as this was my first attempt to utilize UPB.
I had already been using the SA USB PIM just fine along with the SA serial PIM with no issues. Went as far as thinking that there was something wrong with my HAI OPII panel. Even doing a cold boot of the HAI UPB PIM didn't help my issues. I replaced the HAI UPB PIM and all was well and all was well after that. That said and some recent issues I noticed that the longest warranty was on my PCS UPB devices and the shortest was on my SA and HAI UPB devices.
IE:
HAI
Any implied warranties, including warranties of merchantability and fitness for particular use or purpose are limited to a period of two (2) years from purchase date. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may have other legal rights, which vary from state to state. Some limitations may not apply to you.
SA
WARRANTY PERIOD
The warranty period for all Simply Automated UPB (Universal Powerline Bus) products is two (2) years.
PCS
All PCS products are completely
“Made in USA” and carry a five-year limited warranty and a one-year Money Back Guarantee for Certified Dealers.
“Made in USA” and carry a five-year limited warranty and a one-year Money Back Guarantee for Certified Dealers.
Most folks do purchase their UPB devices from certified dealers; but what happens if you are a new owner of a house with 3 year old PCS switches and end up with a defective switch?
The HAI PIM I got is a relatively recent purchase and the unit itself has only been in use for about a month. Perhaps someone from HAI can chime in here as this issue is frustrating to say the least.
While I am here, might as well note that this flashing occurs with all of my lights that are using the ecosmart pars (all my 4" can lights), not just the one previously mentioned.
While I am here, might as well note that this flashing occurs with all of my lights that are using the ecosmart pars (all my 4" can lights), not just the one previously mentioned.
You can blame the PIM, but I think over time you might discover other things that cause this as well. I have a color laser printer that can cause this. Any switch/LED light that flashes when a PIM transmits is not correctly handling powerline "noise" no matter what the cause. The PIM does nothing more than put pulses on the powerline, and MANY things can do that as well. When you have two PIMs, and one flashes your lights, that likely is the BETTER PIM of the two because it is sending out the stronger UPB signal. The one that DOESN'T flash your light might not be working correctly, or at least as good as it should be working.
How strong of a pulse does the HAI PIM put out in comparison to the SAI PIM? The SAI PIM I have works flawlessly without flashing the lights and with no communication problems, so I have no reason to believe it is not functioning correctly.
I might add there are other LED lights in dimmed state on the same circuit (different switch) that do not flash with either PIM. If it were the fault of the switch design, one might expect all dimmed LED's to flash with the HAI PIM, however that is not the case. I am more inclined to blame the lamp, however throwing away $200+ of lamps or spending (and throwing away) even more on new switches that may or may not solve the problem is not a solution. The fact of the matter is when the HAI PIM is accessing the network the lights flash, and it is the only device on the network that causes these lights to flash.
I might add there are other LED lights in dimmed state on the same circuit (different switch) that do not flash with either PIM. If it were the fault of the switch design, one might expect all dimmed LED's to flash with the HAI PIM, however that is not the case. I am more inclined to blame the lamp, however throwing away $200+ of lamps or spending (and throwing away) even more on new switches that may or may not solve the problem is not a solution. The fact of the matter is when the HAI PIM is accessing the network the lights flash, and it is the only device on the network that causes these lights to flash.
