Z-Wave vs Insteon - Opinions?

[KenM]

Jay,

The ZTH100 only has the ability to store 8 timers, that seems too limited for even my use in the timer department. The HA07 will store 28. The ZTH100 does have 64 channels (addressable buttons) where the HA07 only has 12. The menu navigation seems a little confusing at first on both units. After a little experimenting it became fairly easy to add and modify the timers. You are able to have as many of these controllers as needed, keeping in mind there are some total device number limits.

I don't plan to use the ZTH100 for timers, the HA07 is my choice for that.

Without a PC you will need to take notes. The HA07 has 12 channels (groups) that you associate devices to. Then the timer events work on any of the 12 groups. In the timer menu you see a time, day assignment, group#, timer#, and device level assignment. I like the HA07's large LCD display. The limited number of channels makes it a bit easier to use as a remote control, six on/off buttons, press the shift key for the second set of six. I put my timers on the second set of six and use the first set for local scene activation.

These are all first impressions on my part. Also, keep in mind that my total device count will most likely be less than 30. I'm looking at this from the perspective of a low device count. I would not think of setting up a large installation without some type of PC to help organize things.

Ken

 

[KenM]

Mike,

The HomePro ZDW100 switches were a little wider and deeper than the Insteon. They fit in the box OK, but I had to pay attention in how I tucked the wires in. I could not have one wire nut on top of another.

The Intermatic HA06 dimmer looks to be exactly the same size as an Insteon KeypadLinc. I have not had the time to install a HA06 yet.

The faceplates on these two switches just have a single LED indicator. The ZDW100's is green and goes out when the switch is off.

That is about the limit of my experience on the wall switches for now.

You do not 'need' two controllers. If I had a large installation I would definately look into storing the network setup on a PC though.

Ken

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Can you give some more details about the Z-Wave switches? Are they really a lot deeper than Insteon ones.

Yes, a little. The Intermatic switches about about 1/8" deeper than the Insteon switches at most (maybe a little less) and the ACT switches are about 1/3 of an inch deeper than the Insteon switches.

Any Cool LED or Faceplate options?

Not at this point that I know of.

 

[pkshiu]

I just installed my HA06, Intermatic in-wall dimmer. It installed fine since my wall box is very deep. The switch works well, I like the click on the paddle, and the green LED (I know this is a personal thing) is just right in terms of brightness, when it is on.

Now that I have enough modules to program a scene, I must say this is very painful to do. While holding on the "include" key on the controller, which is ok, I need to set the switch itself to the desired brightness. However because of the way these switches work, it is very difficult to make it dim to the right level without overshooting it. At least I have not figure out a good way to do it. You cannot nudge it with taps, you have to hold it down to dim it, and because of the delay in response time, chances are I overshoot the desired level each time. Basically I need a way to set the dim level of a dimmer "directly" without having to do press/hold/wait/release.

One bad thing -- the switch is not really white in color. It is slightly off, so my white face plate does not match up with it completely.

 

[upstatemike]

I just installed my HA06, Intermatic in-wall dimmer. It installed fine since my wall box is very deep. The switch works well, I like the click on the paddle, and the green LED (I know this is a personal thing) is just right in terms of brightness, when it is on.

Now that I have enough modules to program a scene, I must say this is very painful to do. While holding on the "include" key on the controller, which is ok, I need to set the switch itself to the desired brightness. However because of the way these switches work, it is very difficult to make it dim to the right level without overshooting it. At least I have not figure out a good way to do it. You cannot nudge it with taps, you have to hold it down to dim it, and because of the delay in response time, chances are I overshoot the desired level each time. Basically I need a way to set the dim level of a dimmer "directly" without having to do press/hold/wait/release.

One bad thing -- the switch is not really white in color. It is slightly off, so my white face plate does not match up with it completely.

Is there a way to set the switches up through software? Maybe not a free utility like UpStart but something that will work with Z-Wave the same way PowerHome does for Insteon?

 

[KenM]

One bad thing -- the switch is not really white in color. It is slightly off, so my white face plate does not match up with it completely.

Good eye there. I had not installed and of the HA06s yet. It appears the color is a shade towards ivory. It was hard to notice until I put a switch plate cover over it. I wonder if they have a different manufacturer for the covers? I picked mine up from the Smarthome online store. One more thing to check prior to making a major purchace.

I got in a ZIR000 PIR motion detector yesterday. Maybe tomorrow, I will wire in a couple of the HA06 wall dimmer switches and mount the detector so that I can compare that with the hardware I already have.

I am interested in the HA06s because they do not require a neutral connection. They do state '300W tungsten, 40W minimum' in their ratings. When I was up in my attic wiring up neutrals to my switch boxes, there were two boxes that were just a little too hard to get to. Those boxes now have no neutral wires in them. I'll put the HA06s into in that area. There are a lot of homes around without neutral wires to the switch boxes. I can think of several thousand just in my county.

I was using a ZTH100 and a HA07 controller late yesterday. I would have to agree that they are both very hard to use without good ambient light. Neither device has any back lighting for the display.

Ken

 

[ChrisWalker]

Is there a way to set the switches up through software? Maybe not a free utility like UpStart but something that will work with Z-Wave the same way PowerHome does for Insteon?

This is a big of a plug, of course, but our new ThinkEssentials Installer product makes it super-easy to set up scenes. If you've used v1.0, you can set up scenes on the PC. With the new v1.2/Installer edition, you can set up scenes in controllers as well..

The beta on v1.2 starts in June; please feel free to e-mail me if you'd like to be on the beta team.

Also, we'll be posting the v1.1 update to ThinkEssentials on our website in the next few weeks as well. For those of you with the v1.0 build, this new build adds some nice new features...

Chris

 

[johnnynine]

Has anyone found a good ZWave product comparison chart?

I know Intermatic, ACT-HomePro, and Sylvania have actual products at this time and the best chart I have found so far is at:

http://www.harmony-home.com/More/supportedhw.htm

Although I'm not sure how dated it is.

edit: Homepro is ACT's line

 

[ChrisWalker]

Has anyone found a good ZWave product comparison chart?

I know Intermatic, ACT, HomePro, and Sylvania have actual products at this time and the best chart I have found so far is at:

http://www.harmony-home.com/More/supportedhw.htm

Although I'm not sure how dated it is.

ACT has a lot more products than that, and Intermatic has a few new ones that should be on the shelves now or very soon...

Sylvania also has a 300-watt in-wall dimmer switch, and of course Cooper and Leviton and Monster are shipping a ton of products very soon too; they're all in final beta stages.

Chris

 

[johnnynine]

My biggest issues with Z-wave are that it is 2.4 GHz, that it only supports 232 devices and that they will not support open source development.

What does it mean that they will not support open source development? Does this mean that the SDK prohibits it, or that Zen-Sys just won't help out?

In one of my locations, I already have over 100 switches and wall warts. I also have 20 Logitech 890 Z-Wave remotes (I have had many problems with these so far, but I am not yet blaming them on Z-Wave) putting one in each room.

What types of problems are you having with yout Logitech Harmony 890 remotes with regards to Z-Wave?

 

[johnnynine]

The ZDW100W wall dimmers seem to memorize the last 'on level' and then come on up to that level the next time you press the switch paddle (from a full off). To get to full bright again you need to hold in the paddle a few seconds. I don't know if that is a feature or an annoyance. I guess you could look at it either way.

Ken, thanks for all the great info.

How do you like the "last on level" feature of the ZDW100W wall dimmers in comparison to the insteon "always the same on level"?

They also have a default ramp rate of about one second.

Is the ramp rate adjustable? And if so can it be different locally that in a scene like Insteon?

 

[ChrisWalker]

What does it mean that they will not support open source development? Does this mean that the SDK prohibits it, or that Zen-Sys just won't help out?

There are actually quite a few enthusiasts creating community projects with the Z-Wave PC SDK, where they share that code with others to use in their personal projects. All you need is a copy of the Z-Wave PC SDK (currently $49 including an Intermatic USB Z-Wave stick), and you're in business.

Chris

 

[ChrisWalker]

They also have a default ramp rate of about one second.

Is the ramp rate adjustable? And if so can it be different locally that in a scene like Insteon?

This is a configurable option on a bunch of the Z-Wave dimmer devices (especially the new ones). You can use the default dim rate, change the default dim rate, or dim at a particular rate every time.

We'll be supporting these new devices in an update to the Z-Wave PC SDK very soon...

Chris

 

[KenM]

johnnynine,

I have not gotten used to the 'last on level' feature on those ZDW100 dimmer/switches. I think I prefer a switch that just works as a dimmer/switch from the local control. I imagine that some people would enjoy a feature like that. It is handy in a bedroom if you do not want to get hit in the eyes with a 100% bright light the first thing in the morning.

The ramp rate, as far as I know, is not programmable on that switch.


Ken

 

[Guy Lavoie]

I also dislike the "last on level" feature of the Leviton switches. I wish it could be disabled (maybe it is in newer ones). What would *really* be great would be the ability to set the on level by sending it a command, without actually turning the light on or off. That way a scheduled macro could set them to different on levels according to time or whatever.